Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi all..
I've heard somewhere that the vibrations of the top
when the guitar is played is what makes the guitar
'age' and 'open up'.I have several fine handmade
instruments and they take it in turns to be stood in
front of my sub-woofer with dub reggae bass lines to
make the soundboards vibrate.
Is there a concensus on whether this works,or is it
my imagination? I do it because I want to be the one
playing the guitar when it's mature,and given that it
could take years and years for this to happen I don't
want to be too old and feeble to play the guitars.
can any of you wise experts out there enlighten me
on this matter??

A few years back I played a concert with a bluegrass band from NYC.
The guitarist had great sounding Martin D-28 of course! After the
show I asked him what year it was made. Turns out it was from the
mid 90's, I don't remember the exact year. He claimed to have
broken the guitar in by strapping it to the sub-woofer in his truck
when on the road.

Who knows if that was what did it but it sure sounded older than it
was....

Louis

Here is a related article:

When Violinists Play,   Their Violins Improve

Researcher in England   say that laboratory tests conducted on wood
commonly used to make violins   support age-old claims by
musicians that the regular playing of a stringed   instrument
improves its tone.

By Warren E. Leary   (Excerpted from the New York Times)

Dr. David G. Hunt of the   School of Engineering Systems and Design
at South Bank University in London   sways his studies with pieces of
spruce show that continuous forced   vibrations similar to those
experienced with regular use of a musical   instrument changes the
nature of the wood.

In a letter published in   the current issue of the journal Nature, Dr.
Hunt and a graduate student,   Emmanuel Balsan, said that wood
vibrated in condition of high humidity   increased in stiffness and
saw a decrease in dampening coefficient, a measure   of cycles of
vibrations emanating from the material. Both factors are know to   
help provide more pleasant tones in spruce, mature pine and other
woods used   in instrument sounding boards, experts say.

Dr. Hunt, who studies the   structure of wood for the construction
industry, said the results concerning   musical instruments were a
byproduct of research in the effect of moisture in   wood. A music
lover and avid concertgoer, he said he built a guitar several   years
ago but was not a violin expert.

"People don't   understand entirely the structure of wood, even
after using it and studying   it for centuries," he said in a telephone
interview, "Part of the   strength of wood is based on the amount of
water in it and the way it   bonds."

The researchers vibrated   beams of spruce at 10 cycles per second
for 48 hours and the damping   coefficient went down by 5 percent.
The changes persisted when the vibrations   stopped, they said.
Lower damping coefficients mean that a single note is   heard
longer, which is considered a beneficial attribute.

When the wood was   vibrated in a chamber where the humidity was
taken up to 80 to 90 percent,   the damping coefficient went up fast
before drifting downward, they reported.   This resulted in a
decrease in damping and increase in stiffness during   vibrations
that persisted when the vibrations were turned off, they said.

Dr. Hunt attributed the   changes in the wood to a redistribution of
moisture in the wood caused by the   vibration that remained stable
for several days after the test. Over time   perhaps months, he
speculated, the wood was expected to go back to its   initial state of
equilibrium unless the vibrations were applied periodically.

"Musicians have said   that the sound of an instrument gets better
the more you play it, and we have   found a basis for that," he said.

"Although for the   best care of a musical instrument, both high
and low humidities should be   avoided," the researchers wrote, "the
results suggest that at   intermediate or high humidities, the sound
quality may be improved by regular   playing."

Carleen Maley Hutchins of   Montclair, NJ, considered one of the
world's best violin makers and   researchers, said she found the
British work interesting and consistent with   much of her research.
Among other things, she has vibrated violins for 1,600   hours using
frequencies from radio broadcasts and found that this changes   
wood resonance.

"This   would appear to complement work I have been doing," Mrs.
Hutchins said   in a telephone interview, "but I would question their
conclusion that   moisture bonding is the reason. There is research
to indicate that the   molecular bonds of wood actually break
because of vibration and that this   what affects the tonal qualities.
So I think there may be more to it than   moisture bonding."

_________________
- Louis Freilicher

Oh No! Not another learning experience!

Very interesting, Louis! Thanks for posting.

Thanks Lewis!

I wonder if it makes a difference what kind of music you play to it?

-Mark

_________________
Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
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There is a ukeulele builder he believes you can pre age their tone and sound to give it a sound of a fine aged instrument. He has a struming machine he built that he puts the instrument on and it can hold a chord he use A minor chord I believe and it has a picker that pick all the strings at once. He runs it till it has strumed 1 million times. I think it takes a week to do this. I guess you could use this technique on the guitar too. The article was in frets magazine I believe a couple of months back.

[QUOTE=Mark Tripp] Thanks Lewis!

I wonder if it makes a difference what kind of music you play to it?

-Mark[/QUOTE]

I was going to ask the same question....

Pete Townsend had a more radical way of aging his guitars.

Thanks for the info about the violonist very
interesting.I'll take that as a YES ..and continue to
reggae-fy my guitars.
I use reggae music as the bass lines are loud and
prominent and I find that the soundboards vibrate
enthusiastically with approval!! not sure if high
frequency stuff would be the same..but maybe
someone else knows better.

A friend of mine has a 20 year old Tak - he bought it the same year as another friend of his, who also happened to buy the same guitar. The one guy plays his a ton, the other sat in its case the majority of the years - they compared guitars a few months back and couldnt believe how close they sounded to one another. maybe it depends on the wood or something, but I think time and tension creates relative equality.

_________________
Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

Thank you Lewis for this information.Very interesting stuff!
Raj, About the strong bass line affecting the opening up of the guitar,It seems possible to have an effect on it but its tough to say for sure. Just have to give her a try I suppose I think there was a thread on this subject a while back.Check out the archives.

_________________
Anderson Guitars
Clearwater,Fl. 33755

The CO Luthiers got together at Edward Victor Dick's place back in Feb, and there was a lengthy discussion on this topic. Edward has developed a tool that shakes his guitars through every note on a scale by vibrating the bridge. He has done about 50 guitars, and has had extremely good results. He said you can't make a crappy guitar sound good, but you can make a good guitar sound better. This jig was inspired by THIS book. You can see pics and read more about this jig HERE
Enjoy!
TracyLuthierSupplier38910.5055902778

_________________
Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Your welcome all!! Thanks to Ivon Schmuckler at the Leeds
Guitarmakers' School in Northampton Mass for passing the article on
to me.

Louis

_________________
- Louis Freilicher

Oh No! Not another learning experience!